113561-to-every-rper-upset-about-the-server-merge
Content ---- FirstDo NoHarm there you go. FYI when last names go live it gives you a 100% name change. -Naz | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Isn't the antagonism from that '50 jerk' player made antagonism? I always have preffered RP where no one narrator is in control; that to me is not MMO RP, that's just narrative story telling. The Best MMO RP IMO is that which integrates the game world and its inhabitants regardless of whether or not one wants them to. IRL you don't get to chose when or how the enemy attacks you; in great RP the same is true. The narrative is emergent rather than prescribed. just my 2 cents... | |} ---- ---- ---- Uh, you claim to be an RPer, but you don't seem to understand that the vast majority of RP occurs in /say and /e. When we say we want the language barrier removed, we're not asking for some kind of weird zone-wide communicator; we're asking to be able to talk in /say and /e with the opposite faction. I would also hesitate to state that PvP suddenly makes the RP experience objectively better. It doesn't. Different people like different things. If one person doesn't like random PvP, then they aren't going to enjoy playing on a PvP server and they sure as heck aren't going to enjoy RPing on a PvP server - especially when they can get their PvP fix from battlegrounds/arenas/warplots and being on a PvE server doesn't actually prevent them from participating in open world PvP either. In short, it's nice to declare your love for PvP servers, but I would stop short of calling them objectively better RP experiences and that anything not on a PvP server or that doesn't include random PvP is somehow inferior. | |} ---- It honestly depends on the lore Nau... for example, in SWTOR PvP made RP objectively MUCH better... because the whole story revolved around the galactic conflict of the Empire and Republic. Having RP with in the bounds of that world narrative with out PvP really would take away from the RP experience. W* is a bit different. It does sort of have that strong faction antagonism, but at the same time it's very different from the Empire x Republic in the TOR universe. Indeed PvP might not make W* RP objectively better; but it could very well make it more immersive. Part of RP indeed is the interaction with ones own faction; but a good portion of it should also really be interactions with the other faction. | |} ---- I hate Esper Animations. Killing things by triple wield psisword is 10x better than a Psychic Frenzy. That's not to say having large scale battles for territory can't be fun or that PvP servers are lame. They just add marginal interest to an RP experience. If anything, OwPvP adds more complications than it's worth. | |} ---- PvP is not the only way to roleplay physical conflict, however, and in fact it can be considered very limiting in nature. | |} ---- RvR is the only effective way to produce dynamic and realistic faction conflict. I'm speaking from experience in WAR; one of the best RP experiences I've had in any game ever. It's RvR made RP in it spectacular... I believe the 'limiting' nature you are referring to is that it doesn't mesh with prescribed narratives, no? (please correct me if I'm wrong). I believe this is a fundamental issue with the way people are trying to RP in MMO's; RP in an MMO shouldn't be a flat narrative experience as it is in other media; it has all the basis to be a dynamic and organic story building experience in which a narrative emerges from player interaction rather than player interaction be dictated by a narrative script. YMMV, but the above is my personal experience. | |} ---- ---- ---- My suggestion was that such translation requires you to "crack a code" or somesuch obvious pseudoscience justification, in order to read enemy faction's /say and /emote, so people have some sense of having worked to understand the faction. W* is already adding a chat channel for RP though, and I was suggesting a short quest around level 15 to get said chat channel, to keep people from rolling alts, and trolling the channel with impunity at level one for hours on end. As it stands there are several addons that automagically translate everything the other faction says and does. I'm not saying it's better to RP on a pvp server with random pvp. I'm saying that you will not FIND spontaneous world PvP on roleplaying servers. It's a risk to flag up. Players do not take unnessecary risks. You can make some amazing friends saving an ally (In character) from the enemy faction (a mix of IC and OOC). You can play any of the many many angles, heck you can go running around old zones with a group of buddies "on patrol" searching a zone for friendlies in trouble. Most Rpers don't get Super duper serious into endgame raiding either, but they will do some pve, usually end up pretty well geared. You could be our protectors, guardians, and wildcard assassins, the crouching tiger hidden badass wearing an expertly crafted clothie shirt. you can be a max level crafter with a ton of rare recipies and only do business at your house and in character. You could encourage people to bring you customers there. You could run an inn and actually hear the stories of veterans returning from the front there. Whereas in the reverse you COST yourself opportunities.The enemy faction can never hurt you unless you specifically invite them to... No spontaneous bad luck ambushed by a foul villain who must now be hunted. No injured by a cruel dominion soldier, set to bed rest where your friends must keep vigil and a mordesh is scavenging chua supplies to make a potent medshot. It's just trading more opportunities for story for less. Because even if you DO decide to flag, no one is going to know, or be out there to care, or even think to attack you. Thank you all for your civility and input thusfar, especially Nazryn, who is defending me for I am not sure why. perhaps he sees merit in my argument, if so thank you sir/maam, that is the only acceptable metric to judge the worth of defense upon. | |} ---- Spontaneous? Perhaps. Perhaps not. However, I can very much roleplay those things on a PvE server, without the need for random open world PvP. You realize that players roleplay with the opposing faction on PvE servers as well, yes? We have conflict. We have fights. We have arguments... and we have subterfuge, traitors, smuggling, and more. | |} ---- Good arguments stand on their own, so don't let it go to your head :P but It is very obvious that in faction based games that have deep conflict set intrinsically into their world lore, engaging in that conflict is not only beneficial to good RP, but necessary. To be good MMO RP, you need that interaction from other players on the other faction (otherwise you totally waste the media). | |} ---- Oh come on Naz, You have got to be one of the top forum trolls here. Anything you say should first be filtered with a fine sieve just to pick out the sarcasm and bs you use to get people to respond. What is very obvious is that this game has MAJOR issues. The RP people are also one of the major groups, vocally if nothing else. What they don't need is the hate filled pvp gank fest that unfortunately mmos are filled with these days. IF there was a place for rp-pvp with the vast majority of players interested in rping and not ganking lower level characters because they could. Then, I would advocate the idea of RPers going over to the pvp servers. However based on the behavior of most pvp people I have had the unfortunate fortune to run into in the past few years. I would rather they got run over by a bus than logged in any game. That or maybe their mommy needs to teach them how to behave, so someone in the real world doesn't gank them..... | |} ---- That's patently false. I do not troll on the forums... period. The worst I do is badger OP's who post complaint threads and pop sarcasm into some of my replies. I also have little patience for posters who have little or no concept of logic when they post. But I never post anything simply to make anyone angry; even the silliest things I post are to make a real point. And I almost ALWAYs indicate my sarcasm with sarcasm /sarcasm so people don't get too confused. First off, I fixed some of the above for you. I popped back into SWTOR earlier to see what the new updates brought... and I can confidently say that the issues W* does have are not major. It absolutely does have issues; but nothing as bad as other games out atm (need I remind you of ESO?) Second, I love the RP community here (the Evindra crew are what honestly keep me interested in this game for the long haul), but the RP community simply did not have the numbers to warrant a seperate megaserver. IIRC CRB_Anlath came out and explicitly apologised for the move, but told us that there were just too few numbers to justify a seperate RP megaserver. So the reality is, RP in W* will have to do the same thing RP in almost every other MMO has to do; be creative and either deal with / incorporate a larger game community. If you read my posts in this thread, I was being 100% sincere in my statements about including PVP and other non-rp players into the RP process. It isn't impossible to do and honestly if done right it can make the experience even more enjoyable. One of the major BENEFITS to RP in MMO's is the dynamic community and interactions with them. I think honestly too many RP'rs get stuck in very small and insular groups and simply are unwilling to incorporate the greater player corpus within their RP. I think at least part of this is a tendency to script and pre-write RP narratives which is common and necessary in other media (such as forumsites) but ignores the unique media MMO's bring to the RP table with organic encounters with community members outside your group. WAR was one of the best for me; because it wasn't hard to get other factions in on the RP. I'm guarding a Chaos keep? Shout taunts at the silly elves and their gods in my characteristically broken goblin speech; they shout back exquisitely crafted slurs against Tzeentch in their stuck-upiest high elve banter, and we made it fun RP as they storm our keep. I've had similar experiences in SWTOR. I'm simply advocating a more open approach to RP; it won't always be perfect but so what? Thats the point of an MMO. People won't work per your RP narrative; which will mean either you will rage quit because you're a control freak; or you will let your RP build off of uncontrollable interactions and produce an emergent RP experience. Obviously your mileage may vary, but there is no reason the above isn't a viable RP strategy as megaservers are implemented. | |} ---- We have cross faction chat, and no harrassment happens from other side that doesn't happen from your own side, also game mechanic used for rp? That alone would kill the rp spirit in most cases. Rocio is right, best antagonist is player made and player driven story. Keep the game mechanics kinda out of this. | |} ---- ---- ---- What... Okay, I get it, there is an addon for everything. Still, I do not think that one and only pvp server is the best place to do your RP activities. Okay, there are RP players who could like the idea of the dynamic obliteration. There are also hardcore RPers who stop playing the character when they die - now I would love to see that on PvP server :lol: - disclaimer: I don't understand that either. The point is: Free butchering would in my opinion deal more damage than good. | |} ---- That's a pretty convoluted solution for something that is just as easily fixed with "no more language barrier" and "cross faction housing". xD (Yes, yes, I know there's an addon for the language thing... I have some issues with it not playing nice with certain chat mods and I'm waiting for it to be updated to take on those chat mods' functions. BUT REGARDLESS, I don't think talking with the opposite faction should be something that we need an addon for.) | |} ---- ---- Or a guild / circle based PvP flag system. | |} ---- ---- Of course it would, roleplay happens with chat, not game mechanics. It's bad form to use game mechanic to kill or harm others. Some do this but I do not, and yes rping on a pvp server would be same as it is now, except you can't level without being griefed. People will still huddle around rp hot spots inside cities, where it's safe from pvp. | |} ---- ---- ---- What I'm saying is that I have been there. That I have risen to the levelcap of several rp servers, Even if I flag up, no one who chose to play that pve server has any interest in non-battlegrounds pvp. I can, will, and have walked around entire pvp zones without seeing another player, and on the off chance I did, they booked it outta there like no one's business, or jumped around me in circles playing the hahaha you can't attack me till I attack you followed by run away after a poke. I don't know where you get the idea that on a pvp server you will be griefed into oblivion while leveling, I leveled on a pvp server with minimal *cupcake* interference, the stand out experience was being ganked by an equal level player once in whitevale over a hydrogem node, and again in wilderrun while I was trying to kill a prime by someone LOWER level than me. From my observations, the major place you can get ambushed is doing dailies if anything, and that just means you should bring a group of friends with you. Everyone needs dailies, even Rpers, because those dyes and costumes do NOT appear out of nowhere. I made this thread because many Rpers, punished by the dong raids of second life, and the cruelty of the 4chan subset of the wow population that just lived to shit on low levels, do not believe pvp is good for them. I just wanted to let you know that in W* it's okay. The big bad griefer boogeyman is a myth, the mods are on top of node camping bots in pvp gear, so that's not happening, and honestly you could draw so many people that have never heard of RP as an audience to watch. If RP events are fun and interesting, people will participate, even if only because their rper friend dragged them along. Edited September 15, 2014 by The Defective | |} ---- ---- The name thing can be fun... how about "ThenAmputate", "HaveOthersDoItForYou", "UntilYouVerifyTheyHaveCoverage", "UnlessTheyWontPayUp".... :) On topic, basically adapt and incorporate? Won't really know that the true obstacles are until the mega server goes live. They will need to spawn new instances of zones...how many people does it take to fill a zone with RPers so it will respawn, can one transport between said instances to be in an instance that's higher in RPGers, can people cooperate to do this? Strength of community is supposed to make things happen, the mega servers will bring new challenges with its changes-will the community adapt? | |} ---- ---- ---- I agree with you that trying to change the switch to megaservers is a waste of time--that decision has been made. On the other hand, I'm less inclined to agree that griping about it has no value. The decision was made to let the hammer fall on the reason I play the game this time. That's not a hit due to bugs or poor implementation, that's a hit if the change actually works as intended. While I'm not happy about that, I can understand the reasoning behind it. But I also want the devs to keep in mind that we took this one already when they're deciding the pros and cons of where the next hammer falls. Hopefully we won't pay for it as much as some clearly worry that we will--I've played in other games with one or a few very large servers that still managed to have a strong RP community, so I remain cautiously optimistic that the damage will be limited. But the idea that somehow it will bring more recruits to the RP community if we no longer have a dedicated RP server is flatly absurd, as is the idea that somehow the RP will be better if it goes to the PvP server where the griefers can not only wreak havoc just to be an annoyance during RP, but also gank everyone there to completely destroy it. If you want to pretend that these non-RPing players are zombies or assassins or whatever, you can do that. But THEY aren't thinking that at all. You're not only writing your own character's motives at that point, but you're writing in motives post-hoc for most of the other people you're playing with as well to fit your character's story. That's not multiplayer RP--that's single player RP in a multiplayer game. You could do it just as readily in a single-player game, by rewriting the motives of the NPCs to match whatever story you're telling yourself about your character. So all due respect to the OP, but the day I decide that the only way I can RP in this game is to go to the PvP server is the day I leave this game. I'm headed to the PvE server, where I can still enable PvP when I choose to but can't have it crammed down my throat by some *cupcake* who can't wrap their head around the idea of people RPing in a MMORPG. | |} ---- ---- Actually it's kinda funny when PVPers think RPers can't pvp as well as them then they get blasted, happened in EVE with CVA. We did exceptionally well with using just lasers and Amarr ships, as you know lasers are the weakest weapon in that game or used to be :O But still I'd rather not be forced into something I would not enjoy again. Eve was kinda special. | |} ---- ---- I think it's actually hilarious when I PvP in practice grounds and I start roleplaying. I genuinely jsut don't care and roleplay every chance I get and feel in the mood for it! I'm a fast typist and have fun! But boy I tell ya...some of the hate ya get sometimes is out there lol. Though most seem to enjoy it as well I remember doing a bloodsworn once on my alt and just roleplaying the whole thing and one person was really annoyed, but everyone else joined in on it. Really fun time | |} ---- ---- I understand you don't want it forced upon you, and from my understanding it wont be... you have the choice of PvE if you want. I don't think many people think RP'ers can't PvP, what i was refering too by saying top guilds stopped their members from harassing RP'ers was to do with guild vs guild battles they used to organise. We all used to go along and watch, it was fun. All guild members where under strict orders not to intervene untill it was over - then it was a free for all. I was guildless but still didn't intervene because it was bad enough having the RP'ers hunting me everywhere without adding the top PvP guilds to the list. My life wouldn't have been worth living lol | |} ---- ---- ---- There is actually a crime ring setting up. I've got two characters leveling up for.it. One is a kidnapper and the other is an Asssassin. :) | |} ---- ---- On a PVP server it's forced upon you. You are flagged everywhere. | |} ---- Thats why i said you have a choice, PvE or PvP. Or are you saying RP servers are being PUT on PvP servers without getting the choice? I would agree with you that this would be wrong. I hope you guys do move to a PvP mega server though, i enjoy the interaction with RP'ers. | |} ---- Nope, the Op said we should transfer to PVP server, my arguements have been against that. Since if we did transfer to PVP server we'd be forced to pvp. | |} ---- ---- At least leveling in a pvp server would be easier. Because you go out in a blob of friends to do it :P Crush out content fast and level fast :P | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I think it will surge back when we get more oculus rift and VR-like technologies to support. I want to be in my 60s saying "thee" and "thine" | |} ---- Maybe they're just happy to see you! | |} ---- ---- Maybe they like having targets. :P | |} ---- ----